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30. 09 2008

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[00:17:37] <asmodai> omg
[00:18:22] <asmodai> just received a Microsoft recruitment email
[00:20:43] <tux21b> rofl, looks like you are doing something wrong ;)
[00:24:32] <asmodai> not quite
[00:24:37] <asmodai> i18n/l10n related
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[10:17:34] <asmodai> http://fukung.net/v/9550/ef46fe9d113367a14112e6153d49d8c9.gif
[10:20:55] <prencher^> now that's just rude
[10:26:11] <davidcramer> LOL
[10:26:29] <davidcramer> prencher^: the question is, is the little kid rude, or the guy who tripped him? :)
[10:30:12] <asmodai> http://images.pingmag.jp/images/article/hajime21.jpg
[10:30:16] <asmodai> He did that by GPS
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[12:57:16] <saptah> hi.
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[13:13:32] <prencher^> asmodai - landluber!
[13:13:40] <asmodai> eh?
[13:13:50] <prencher^> who knows
[13:14:17] <asmodai> Been sniffing glue again?
[13:14:24] <prencher^> not glue, no
[13:14:33] <asmodai> is it me or is reddit's css broken?
[13:14:46] <prencher^> reddit has css?
[13:18:42] <tux21b> yeah, it looks more unreadable than normal
[13:20:48] <grumpy> Hmmm, bit of an understatement.
[13:22:13] * tux21b wishes for a http://CSSdownforeveryoneorjustme.com/ :)
[13:26:58] <asmodai> heh
[13:27:28] <prencher^> i guess stallman is trying to be trendy.. now moaning about "cloud computing"
[13:29:42] <ronny> prencher^: where?
[13:30:17] <ronny> hmm, i dont like the term cloud computing
[13:30:54] <prencher^> http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2008/sep/29/cloud.computing.richard.stallman
[13:31:06] * prencher^ is now known as prencher
[13:31:41] <prencher> ronny - i guess we can thank microsoft for that stupid term
[13:31:57] <prencher> at least they were the first i heard talking of "data in the cloud"
[13:32:23] <prencher> it's like ajax.. a retarded buzzword term that doesn't make sense
[13:32:55] <ronny> yeah, i still have no idea what cloud computing is supposed to mean
[13:33:13] <prencher> ronny - all it means is "remotely"
[13:33:27] <prencher> e.g. vps'es, appengine, gmail et al
[13:33:34] <prencher> anything where you don't have physical access to data/hardware
[13:33:35] <prencher> that's it
[13:33:52] <ronny> so its just using plain old web apps
[13:33:54] <ivan> it's like your applications except not running on reliable dedicated servers but rather rented on amazon
[13:33:55] <ivan> amirite?
[13:34:19] <prencher> ivan - far from it
[13:34:53] <ivan> wikipedia: "Cloud computing is Internet ('Cloud') based development and use of computer technology ('Computing'). The cloud is a metaphor for the Internet (based on how it is depicted in computer network diagrams) and is an abstraction for the complex infrastructure it conceals"
[13:34:55] <ivan> lol
[13:35:53] <prencher> simplest way to put it is that others manage the physical aspect of your shit
[13:36:00] <prencher> whether your shit is servers, or data, or whatever else
[13:36:18] <prencher> just like ajax it makes no goddamned sense and is as broad in scope as your average US software patent
[13:36:51] <aa_> I own cloud computin
[13:36:56] <aa_> pay me
[13:37:02] <ronny> well, ajax is at lease "async javascript and xml"
[13:37:08] <ronny> so there is some sense in it
[13:37:13] <aa_> PAY ME!
[13:37:36] <ronny> cloud computing sounds like bussiness people on drugs shooting servers at clouds
[13:37:43] <prencher> ronny - but that's not what the term is used for.. it's used for ANYTHING interactive on a webpage
[13:38:07] <prencher> and hell.. nobody really does xml either anymore for what people refer to as ajax.. it's all json
[13:38:13] <aa_> I think it's used for any outsourced service
[13:38:22] <aa_> (as prencher said)
[13:38:33] <ronny> prencher: yeah, back in the old days we could just call that dhtml
[13:38:40] <prencher> pretty much.. of course companies now refer to their own infrastructure as THEIR CLOUD too..
[13:38:45] <aa_> I am developing a library of pretty cloud-related pictures I can show $MANAGEMENT
[13:38:58] <ronny> aa_: lol
[13:39:24] <aa_> "we need this" "why?" "look at this diagram.." "oooooooh, gugle use it"
[13:39:44] <davidcramer> I love all the JS kids who start crying if you use the term ajax
[13:39:55] <davidcramer> i think efnet has a javascript channel where they auto ban you if you type ajax :P
[13:40:01] <aa_> hah
[13:40:03] <prencher> aa_ - "you know, we host all our apps to run on our own cloud (2 servers, one a pentium 30 the other an amd thunderbird)"
[13:40:14] <aa_> prencher: you know it!
[13:40:25] <aa_> prencher: we actually have out own cloud server
[13:40:39] <prencher> our cloud is hardware load balanced (linksys wrt54gl router running dd-wrt)
[13:40:42] <davidcramer> aa_: to be honest, I see cloud computing more than just outsourced, its really (in my opinion) the approach used in appengine/ec2
[13:40:56] <aa_> davidcramer: it's broader than that
[13:40:59] <davidcramer> which is really just horizontal scaling :P
[13:41:10] <aa_> davidcramer: I call that the "nuts in a strangle-grip" computing
[13:41:14] <davidcramer> haha
[13:41:22] <davidcramer> thats a good word for using it w/ those services
[13:41:30] <davidcramer> although someones been talking to me about ec2 -- im a bit worried
[13:41:46] <aa_> prencher loves appengine
[13:41:50] <davidcramer> I think it's a really neat concept. I just don't think it works well.
[13:41:52] <prencher> oh i do do i?
[13:42:00] <aa_> not really
[13:42:11] <davidcramer> the only thing I like about appengine is you get a big table out of it :)
[13:42:11] <aa_> well, at least you managed to cuddle it to stop spewing warnings
[13:42:31] <aa_> ok, here's a good one to define...
[13:42:33] <aa_> "mashup"
[13:42:53] <prencher> any use of 2+ technologies together
[13:42:58] <davidcramer> put any 2 or more shiny technologies on the web together and you seem to get a mashup :p
[13:43:12] <davidcramer> hell you can "mashup" 2 damned webpages now with some services
[13:43:15] <davidcramer> just point and click at what you want
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[13:43:49] <davidcramer> but without these terms what would you call things when you're referring to them
[13:43:50] <davidcramer> take ajax for example
[13:43:58] <davidcramer> gotta have something that people recognize :)
[13:44:07] <davidcramer> although I do love how everything is referred to as "we are web 2.0, we use ajax"
[13:44:29] <prencher> aa_ - building an app on appengine actually, it's good fun.. good excercise in being preemptive with data denormalization.. and build it right, you can just swap out the datastore models with sqlalchemy and you have a pretty nicely designed relational app too
[13:45:39] <prencher> of course, scaling db's isn't quite as hard as the cloud computing nutters like to make it out to be
[13:46:30] <ronny> well, it is with the toy orms or php
[13:46:34] <prencher> if you do get to the scale where it becomes hard, i really don't want to see the bill you'd be footing for appengine
[13:46:35] <davidcramer> I think once you get to a certain point, anything becomes a challenge to scale
[13:46:50] <davidcramer> but if you're on appengine at that point congrats to you :P
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[13:49:34] <prencher> with great xen based hosting like linode and slicehost out there.. stuff like ec2 and appengine doens't really look all that attractive.. appengine is nice only because it's so easy (appcfg update . - all infrastructure related things you have to worry about) and new tech
[13:50:20] <prencher> but with both linode and slicehost, you can start out for 20 bucks a month and scale that same instance to 4 gigs of ram and tons of cpu before needing to worry about splitting off.. and then you just get another vps and you now have a db server within an hour
[13:50:38] <prencher> et al..
[13:51:16] <prencher> ec2 is the same thing just with a different provisioning model.. only good if you do heavy processing
[13:53:54] <prencher> you have to get to a pretty big scale where a simple db master/master setup won't do as well.. hell that's what slashdot still uses
[13:54:35] <davidcramer> From what I gather, that's what Flickr uses
[13:54:52] <davidcramer> well a bit more complicated, but its basically master/master
[13:56:25] <prencher> they're hardcore sharding everything
[13:56:52] <davidcramer> From the sounds of it thought, it seems they shard based on users, and assign users to a master
[13:57:17] <davidcramer> *though
[13:57:28] <davidcramer> it's kind of a neat idea, I never thought about it
[13:57:54] <prencher> they have a replication hierarchy et al as well, and make sure the user so far as possible always talks to the same db server, so as to minimize replication lag issues
[13:58:03] <davidcramer> ya
[13:58:16] <prencher> far more complicated than a single master/master set, which is what slashdot uses
[13:59:01] <prencher> they may be running some 4 slaves, i forget.. think not though.. it's definitely a single hiearchy though, which means you only really have to worry about replication lag, which isn't that hard to deal with at that scale
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[19:08:14] <asmodai> jeez, that bruhaha on the distutils list...
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[19:20:17] <birkenfeld> asmodai!
[19:23:49] <asmodai> birkenfeld: dude
[19:23:52] <asmodai> Queen of Chains...
[19:24:00] <birkenfeld> ugly, isn't she...
[19:24:07] <asmodai> hahah
[19:24:08] <asmodai> ya
[19:24:24] <asmodai> I just went into part 2 of the book
[19:26:18] <ronny> wth=
[19:26:57] <asmodai> what the hell
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[20:45:40] <rafael> mitsuhiko, ping
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